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Post by andrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:49:14 GMT 1
Had a problem with my early F2 350 just not revving as it should. previously the bike had no tickover and started when I felt like it. turned out it was my fault for letting an overzealous garage clean my carbs, I asked for an ultrasonic wash what I got was a shot-blast as a bonus Fortunately along came Muttsnuts to the rescue. Bike ticked over fine for a while then died again (note this bike is simply being started in the garage as its not ready for the road) carbs off again, pilots blocked, so cleaned refitted and away we go, if the engine is revved occasionally then it runs ok (not brill but ok). Gave it just one road test and felt like the revs didn't just die off as I would have expected (almost as if the throttle cable was sticking slightly - but its not). so back the garage again started many times runs ok(ish) warms up nicely according to the temp gauge, but will eventually die (couple of mins max) if left to tick over on its own, once the engine dies then will not start. Left the bike over the weekend then came back to it tonight, no start, plugs out both spark fine, open the carb drain plugs fuel is present, plugs back in, no start. plugs out again - damp but sparking (not wet through).
Last attempt before putting the plugs back squirt a couple of mils of petrol into the cylinders and hey presto it starts, runs fine occasional blip on the throttle when I think its dying and all's well. ran it for a good 10 mins (this is only in the garage not on the road) but I know if left the engine will die (doesn't matter how hot the engine is).
A couple of clues that I noticed - the left hand cylinder (Choke side) always seems to run hotter then the left, the plugs will bear this out with the right one showing normal colour and the left looking clean (almost as new). and when revving the engine seemed to hesitate before revving (both by sound and on the rev counter), revving seemed to improve when choke applied (no hesitation) but tickover didn't. choke in, hesitation back. Finally left on tickover and after a min, engine died. Feeling at both cylinders, left Hot ie could only touch the YPVS logo on the head for a split second whereas right cylinder was definitely warm but not as hot (could easily leave my hand there). Feeling at the exhausts left side hot all the way to the baffle end, right side cool.
Any clues?
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Post by Yogi on Sept 1, 2014 21:53:00 GMT 1
Almost certainly Carb problems
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Post by andrew on Sept 1, 2014 22:00:58 GMT 1
Almost certainly Carb problems Thanks Yogi, was praying that someone would say something else, these carbs are doing my head in!!! lol, ok will strip again
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Post by Yogi on Sept 1, 2014 22:04:45 GMT 1
Check there's no air leaks through torn rubbers and carbs are piped up right aswell
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Post by Yogi on Sept 1, 2014 22:08:22 GMT 1
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Post by andrew on Sept 2, 2014 10:01:10 GMT 1
Hmmmm interesting reading, does seem appropriate for my prob. Thanks
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Post by muttsnuts on Sept 2, 2014 10:23:59 GMT 1
um, interesting Andrew, your carb's shouldn't need touching as I checked and set them up after cleaning them, they should be spot on, you say you got more crap out of the carbs, is that after I sent them back?, if so then its got be coming from your fuel tank.
Do you have a remote/camel back fuel tank you can use?, also, do you have the vacuum tube for the petrol tap connected correctly?, also, have you checked it for any leaks/cracks etc
Given what you are saying I would be looking to make sure I have a fresh/clean fuel supply, if you use a camel back/seperate fuel tank, be sure to fold over the vacuum pipe and also tape over the end of it to make sure its sealed, if that sucks in air then it won't run correctly no matter what you do
HTH
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Post by jackjabba on Sept 2, 2014 12:10:06 GMT 1
Revs not dropping off as expected, left hand crank seal. High temp left hand barrel could be that its pulling air and running lean, therefore getting hotter.
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Post by andrew on Sept 2, 2014 16:30:41 GMT 1
um, interesting Andrew, your carb's shouldn't need touching as I checked and set them up after cleaning them, they should be spot on, you say you got more crap out of the carbs, is that after I sent them back?, if so then its got be coming from your fuel tank. Do you have a remote/camel back fuel tank you can use?, also, do you have the vacuum tube for the petrol tap connected correctly?, also, have you checked it for any leaks/cracks etc Given what you are saying I would be looking to make sure I have a fresh/clean fuel supply, if you use a camel back/seperate fuel tank, be sure to fold over the vacuum pipe and also tape over the end of it to make sure its sealed, if that sucks in air then it won't run correctly no matter what you do HTH Yes I did forget to mention that I thought it maybe the fuel tap as it did receive the same treatment as the carbs, however the difference with the tap was that I rebuilt it with a new seal kit before putting back into service, I then did suspect the vacuum tube so have run with the tap on prime only, your right in that the tank is not in good condition but did expect that the walking great fuel filter inside the tank would do its job, fuel is new BP performance stuff. Must admit to noticing that the right cylinder was cool before all the work on the bike commenced so was thinking that maybe there is a little problem with the right carb that could be cleared by making it a little richer, figured that if I mark were you set the air screw then have a little play, can't hurt could it?
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Post by andrew on Sept 2, 2014 16:31:16 GMT 1
Revs not dropping off as expected, left hand crank seal. High temp left hand barrel could be that its pulling air and running lean, therefore getting hotter. Good point will check the seals, thanks
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Post by muttsnuts on Sept 2, 2014 17:08:43 GMT 1
um, does sound a little odd, normally the carb's aren't far off once I've done them, just a small tweak at best. you do need to make sure you aren't dragging crap out of the tank, a new fuel source (ideally a clear camel tank) would be good so that you know the carbs aren't getting anything in them other than fuel, could be an air leak though so definately worth checking
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Post by andrew on Sept 2, 2014 19:18:36 GMT 1
um, does sound a little odd, normally the carb's aren't far off once I've done them, just a small tweak at best. you do need to make sure you aren't dragging crap out of the tank, a new fuel source (ideally a clear camel tank) would be good so that you know the carbs aren't getting anything in them other than fuel, could be an air leak though so definately worth checking Ok will go on the hunt for the camel tank, thanks again.
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Post by greasemeup on Sept 2, 2014 19:29:20 GMT 1
One of those thermal imaging cams would be gold for tuning a bike ..
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Post by greasemeup on Sept 2, 2014 19:30:01 GMT 1
They use them here for finding termites Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by andrew on Sept 3, 2014 11:22:05 GMT 1
Along with the latest borescope to I suppose :-) great idea now let me just find the budget to cover...................... um bear with me still looking lol
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Post by andrew on Sept 10, 2014 21:11:00 GMT 1
So got the remote fuel tank (Original petrol tank now going through the old citric acid clean process) i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag293/goulbouna/RemoteFuel_zps1c2f7972.jpg. Cleaned the float bowl and jets (Pilot and main) although no real issue with them, bike started great, less than a min on choke, idle fine, annndddd no stalling... great!!! however we are still not there - once the engine was warm blipping the throttle resulted in increased revs with no real return to idle, cable is fine, can hear the carb sliders drop so I know they are shutting off ok. carb settings (Idle and air screw currently untouched from where Dave left them). and still right cylinder is still colder than the left (as your sat on the bike). can confirm this with the exhausts after 5 mins of running on the bench (as pic) end of right exhaust is cold, left hot. if your sad enough then have a listen to it here: . Im thinking that the carb setting need adjustment, tempted to mark where Dave set em and experiment, but would appreciate any advice to stop me making a complete bollox of it!!!!
The saga continues, but am I giving up???..... No chance!!!!!!!!
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Post by billyboy on Sept 10, 2014 21:22:39 GMT 1
if the revs are hanging , it really does sound like an airleak TBH ,base gaskets worth checking. hope you get it sorted soon
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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 10, 2014 21:22:59 GMT 1
Try a leak down test to make sure there are no air leaks....
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horace
Thrash Merchant
Posts: 456
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Post by horace on Sept 10, 2014 21:36:13 GMT 1
I tried air leak test on my ypvs , could never get it to hold ,always seemed to leak out of pv seals ! Bugger.
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Post by andrew on Sept 10, 2014 21:37:25 GMT 1
Try a leak down test to make sure there are no air leaks.... Leak down test? do tell more.....
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Post by Yogi on Sept 10, 2014 22:01:42 GMT 1
So got the remote fuel tank (Original petrol tank now going through the old citric acid clean process) i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag293/goulbouna/RemoteFuel_zps1c2f7972.jpg. Cleaned the float bowl and jets (Pilot and main) although no real issue with them, bike started great, less than a min on choke, idle fine, annndddd no stalling... great!!! however we are still not there - once the engine was warm blipping the throttle resulted in increased revs with no real return to idle, cable is fine, can hear the carb sliders drop so I know they are shutting off ok. carb settings (Idle and air screw currently untouched from where Dave left them). and still right cylinder is still colder than the left (as your sat on the bike). can confirm this with the exhausts after 5 mins of running on the bench (as pic) end of right exhaust is cold, left hot. if your sad enough then have a listen to it here: . Im thinking that the carb setting need adjustment, tempted to mark where Dave set em and experiment, but would appreciate any advice to stop me making a complete bollox of it!!!!
The saga continues, but am I giving up???..... No chance!!!!!!!! Don't be scared to adjust the carb,,wind the mixture screw in and note how many turns it is,then slowly wind back out until it runs the smoothest,if you loose where your at,wind it back in and start again,usually about 1 to 1 and half turns out to begin with. If it is the mixture at fault you'll soon feel the exhaust heat up,, I'm quite sure if Dave sorted your carbs this wont be the fault as I had once but worth telling you anyway,, I bought a set of carbs a while back and had a similar problem with one side hot and the other cold, when I took them back off I noticed I had a right hand slide in the left carb,,,ie the cut out in the slide wasn't at the back,, I put a slide in from a spare left carb and it ran perfect,worth a quick check , Good luck Matt
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Post by 4l04ever on Sept 10, 2014 22:31:22 GMT 1
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Post by andrew on Sept 13, 2014 18:39:30 GMT 1
Leak down tester now on order, thanks all will let you know the outcome when it arrives and I've worked out suitable blanks or the in and ex
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Post by muttsnuts on Sept 13, 2014 20:00:44 GMT 1
ANdrew, by all means tweak the carbs, I can always tell you the settings anyway, or as you say, just mark them and make a note of where they were and adjust them, no great shakes, but I do think its something else now, certainly worth checking the slides are as they can be an issue, but it does sound air leak(ish) TBH
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Post by andrew on Sept 15, 2014 8:31:47 GMT 1
ANdrew, by all means tweak the carbs, I can always tell you the settings anyway, or as you say, just mark them and make a note of where they were and adjust them, no great shakes, but I do think its something else now, certainly worth checking the slides are as they can be an issue, but it does sound air leak(ish) TBH Thanks Dave, will wait for the tester should be here this week. Then will do the leak test first before looking elsewhere.
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oldman
Weekend rider
Posts: 73
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Post by oldman on Sept 15, 2014 11:49:15 GMT 1
could be power jet had it on my bike one side 60 the other 65
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Post by hampo on Sept 15, 2014 18:32:12 GMT 1
could be power jet had it on my bike one side 60 the other 65 According to the Haynes joke book 1WT pj's are 60rh & 65lh :-)
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Post by proam350 on Sept 15, 2014 21:10:54 GMT 1
Check reed valves get a tin of easy start when bike ticking over spray at reed blocks and base gasket areas if it revs up you got an air leak
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Post by andrew on Sept 15, 2014 21:43:22 GMT 1
Check reed valves get a tin of easy start when bike ticking over spray at reed blocks and base gasket areas if it revs up you got an air leak Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ahh nice one, will give this a try, thanks
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alexm
L plate rider.
Posts: 31
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Post by alexm on Sept 19, 2014 13:34:48 GMT 1
Hope problem sorted
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