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Post by deanord on Aug 3, 2014 22:50:02 GMT 1
evening all!
come up with a stumbling block on my hybrid build..
I'm using a VJ22 swingarm, and due to the price and scarcity of RGV back wheels, elected to buy a GK76 GSXR 400 rear wheel. When you fit said wheel it shows the disc to be 5mm out of line, so machining or changes to the spacers needs to be effected.
Anyone done this successfully?
if so, to save me ages of measuring and guess work - what are the spacer changes and did you have to machine the RGV caliper mount to effectively move the caliper?
Cheers all,
Jon
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 4, 2014 9:09:21 GMT 1
Hi Jon, Looking at this option on and off at the moment. Got an RGV wheel in mine just now but scarcity of them and cush drives being brittle worry me so wanted another option. Yes the disc is 5mm nearer the arm and the sprocket is also 5mm further out that the RGV one. Thought it would just be another off set front but will not fit behind the LC Case (pv motor) and I think it would hit the frame as well. GSXR sprocket carrier is chunky so easily enough meat to machine it down. I also have a Bandit 400 sprocket carrier that fits but has approx 5mm less offset so should work, GS500 may be the same. As for sprockets I have bought 2 now. The Suzuki uses a 525 chain and a larger sprocket so standards are out of bounds. Found a steel 39 tooth 520 suzuki pattern one (JTR823.39 I think) and also thanks to the SV650's being raced a nice alloy 41 tooth 520 one on ebay. Both cheaper than getting B and C to machine one from a Renthal blank. As for the caliper hanger I have not accurately measured it but you can't just get 5mm machined off as it will clash with the swingarm at the mount for the locating slide. Personally I am going to look at making a new hanger from 10 or 12mm alloy plate and a couple of alloy spacers fitted to it so that it sits correctly. As for the standard hanger being modded you could probably get away with cutting 3mm off the face at the spindle at the outer side and 2mm off the inner face that the caliper bolts to which would space the bracket correctly. You would also have to machine around 2mm off the outer face on the slide to the locator on the arm and cut the groove in it a mill or 2 deeper. Not sure if this would weaken the bracket too much. Other option would be a race caliper from the tuning works. Looks like you could fit spacers as the caliper mounts on the outside of the bracket www.thetuningworks.co.uk/store/product_info.php?cPath=21_126&products_id=1294Steve
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Post by deanord on Aug 4, 2014 21:12:49 GMT 1
Steve, interesting - i've had similar thoughts on the caliper bracket front but never progressed them.
One idea i have had is to machine 5mm or so off either side of the wheel hub to allow the disc to reposition and also the sprocket carrier too. again havent progressed this idea but i'm going to think it over this weekend. that said, using the thinner sproket carrier off the GS500 / bandit 400 deals with the 5mm on the drive side, i wonder iff the brake side of the hub could handle loosing 5mm.. i'll get my measuring stick out and let you know..
One of those great ideas that turns out to be a pig of an idea..
keep me posted of your findings, i'll update this if i find anything too..
cheers
Jon
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 5, 2014 8:40:41 GMT 1
Looked at milling 5mm off the disc face of the wheel but it is hollow and would leave no face for the disc other than the bolt holes. Also as the dis bolts have a shoulder on them you would need to re cut the recess for them which would leave very little thread.
Bit the bullet and bought a GS500 sprocket carrier off ebay yesterday so will see if it is the same as the bandit one. Got a Bandit and a GK76 wheel as going to do a gold set of wheels so I have a change from the black ones eventually.
Steve
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Post by deanord on Aug 5, 2014 23:36:57 GMT 1
Ahh, that rules out reducing the hub width then!
let me know once you get the GS carrier - I'm intreagued!!
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Post by Yogi on Aug 6, 2014 7:55:13 GMT 1
Hi mate I've bought a gs 500 carrier but found it too shallow for the chain to pass the tyre,I did have a 160 on in it though and was using a gsxr400 swing arm, I'm interested to see how you get on now
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 6, 2014 18:31:10 GMT 1
Hi mate I've bought a gs 500 carrier but found it too shallow for the chain to pass the tyre,I did have a 160 on in it though and was using a gsxr400 swing arm, I'm interested to see how you get on now Running a 150 on the Rev wheel and chain misses by about 3 mm so as the gsx is wider to clear the 160 rear and the 400 bandit is 5 mm less it should be ideal but wondered about the gs. It has a 3.5 inch wheel, bandit is 4 inch and gsx and rgv is 4.5 so one should work lol. Was put off when I looked at this before as the custom sprocket was over £50 so put it on the back burner till I found them for under £20 Steve
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Post by deanord on Aug 7, 2014 8:59:31 GMT 1
Once i've got my engine built back up i'll move forwards on this, cant check the chain line when theres nowt to hang the front sprocket on!
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 7, 2014 20:06:37 GMT 1
Ahh, that rules out reducing the hub width then! let me know once you get the GS carrier - I'm intreagued!! Well the gs carrier is no good other than it came with another 520 39 tooth sprocket. Measuring from the rear face to the sprocket face the results are approx as follows: GS - 32mm Bandit 400 - 47mm GK76 - 52mm Will have to offer it up and measure. Struggling for time Steve
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Post by Yogi on Aug 7, 2014 20:42:21 GMT 1
Ahh, that rules out reducing the hub width then! let me know once you get the GS carrier - I'm intreagued!! Well the gs carrier is no good other than it came with another 520 39 tooth sprocket. Measuring from the rear face to the sprocket face the results are approx as follows: GS - 32mm Bandit 400 - 47mm GK76 - 52mm Will have to offer it up and measure. Struggling for time Steve Both of us have got no good gs hubs now then,I also bought a talon sprocket when I tried,,also good for nothing now,still if you never try ,you never know, Matt
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Post by deanord on Aug 8, 2014 7:55:25 GMT 1
Bugger...
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 8, 2014 9:32:57 GMT 1
Well the gs carrier is no good other than it came with another 520 39 tooth sprocket. Measuring from the rear face to the sprocket face the results are approx as follows: GS - 32mm Bandit 400 - 47mm GK76 - 52mm Will have to offer it up and measure. Struggling for time Steve Both of us have got no good gs hubs now then,I also bought a talon sprocket when I tried,,also good for nothing now,still if you never try ,you never know, Matt What talon sprocket did you get? If it was to fit the gs it will fit the bandit 400 carrier as they are the same pattern. ( and gk76 ) Think the bandit carrier is the way but you need to use the gk76 inner spacer as the bandit has a 17mm spindle. Steve
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Post by screwdriver on Aug 24, 2014 1:37:21 GMT 1
how much are they now then? I have a couple at the back of the garage....
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Aug 24, 2014 17:17:12 GMT 1
how much are they now then? I have a couple at the back of the garage.... Rgv 17 inch rear wheels way over a ton now, will be parting with mine soon. Steve
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Post by deanord on Sept 9, 2014 7:38:42 GMT 1
I've had an idea.. if you look at the RH side of the rear hub from above, i reckon that we need to move the caliper out by about 8mm. (ish) So my current idea is to increase the width of the axle spacer that fits behind the caliper carrier by said 8mm (ish) and decrease the width of the caliper carrier by the same (removing the outer boss mainly). the lug on the swingarm appears to have enough meat to be able to handle this change, i'll prpobably have to file the welds flat a bit to get it on and do something with the groove in the carrier too, but as far as theories go, it should work..
Once my engine is built i will have a reference point (chainline) to work from... Will post any progress!
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 9, 2014 8:39:51 GMT 1
I've had an idea.. if you look at the RH side of the rear hub from above, i reckon that we need to move the caliper out by about 8mm. (ish) So my current idea is to increase the width of the axle spacer that fits behind the caliper carrier by said 8mm (ish) and decrease the width of the caliper carrier by the same (removing the outer boss mainly). the lug on the swingarm appears to have enough meat to be able to handle this change, i'll prpobably have to file the welds flat a bit to get it on and do something with the groove in the carrier too, but as far as theories go, it should work.. Once my engine is built i will have a reference point (chainline) to work from... Will post any progress! Was hoping it was nearer 5mm, don't want to cut the swinger spigot down but as you say the slot in the carrier could be re worked. Not much further with mine either really. Got the GK76 wheel powder coated and have a new tyre for it. Ordered a wavey disc for it listed as RGV250/GSXR400 but guess what, it doesn't fit as the GSXR inner diameter is 3mm bigger than the RGV. Looked at my RGV disc and it is larger than the RGV wheel inner so that one obviously will fit but they have said they will replace the one I bought. Also got the Bandit wheels P/coated Gold for a change and bagged a pair of little used Bridgestone BT090's for £50 so will have a spare set of wheels for it as well as different gearing options. Running a 70 profile on the Bandit rear so bigger diameter with lower gearing should suit for motorway running. Now held up messing with the bandit front as discovered although it has identical markings to the RGV wheel the width across the bearings is 10mm less so getting a centre spacer made the correct shaft dia/width so I can fit the bearings ( again different as RGV 40mm outer diameter and Bandit 42mm ). Disc spacing looks the same but need to get more time to get the wheels off and check. Problem I have is now the weather is running out and the bike has wheels on it when I get time I take it for a run instead of working on it. Steve
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Post by deanord on Sept 9, 2014 22:18:22 GMT 1
Arent bikes ace!! i bought a new sexy 525 RGV rear sprocket, and then found the RGV stuff is different from the GSXR! thats sat in my pile of "bits for ebay later"!
Didnt realise the bandit front wheel is different either, i bought almost all the running gear of a GK76 being broken on Ebay for not much at all!
I got a shipment of Norbo's finest Yamaha bits today so i ought to pull my finger out and build the damn motor to find out all of this is possible!
My measurement isnt adjusted to find the centre of the caliper - but i'll be doing a little more in depth measuring shortly..
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 9, 2014 22:56:30 GMT 1
It's 520 chain and sprockets you should be looking for as that's what the Rd offset front will be.
As mentioned the gs500 ran a 39 tooth 520 rear sprocket and the race sv650 runs 41 tooth 520 and is readily available and nice anodised alloy.
Yes bikes are great, the bandit front will fit even if it kills me. Dropped of the specs for the spacers to make it fit today and now got bearings to fit.
Steve
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Post by deanord on Sept 10, 2014 21:07:28 GMT 1
Ahh yes, its a suzuki "ultralight" 520 40T - just checked (its been on my dining table for months!) do either the SV or GS use the same sprocket fitting as the gk76?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 11, 2014 6:52:05 GMT 1
Ahh yes, its a suzuki "ultralight" 520 40T - just checked (its been on my dining table for months!) do either the SV or GS use the same sprocket fitting as the gk76? Bolt pattern is the same Steve
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Post by deanord on Sept 11, 2014 17:39:00 GMT 1
cheers - ebay ahoy!
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 23, 2014 12:16:38 GMT 1
Bit of progress. Finally took the rgv wheel off and did some measuring.
Sprocket and disc sit exactly 5mm further out from centre on the gk76 wheel and sprocket carrier. Makes sense as the gsxr has a 10mm wider tyre so 5mm each side.
Fitted the bandit 400 sprocket carrier ( same bearing size and gk76 spacer fits) and is under 0.2mm out so within tolerance. I have also got the gk76 carrier being machined down so will have 3 correct carriers now.
As for the brake side I decided not to machine down the caliper bracket. A new one is being made by my local friendly engineer out of 10mm alloy plate with spacers to fit so should be sorted in a day or two.
I have 2 wheels ready now. One is gk76 in black to match my rgv front but also have a pair of bandit wheels newly coated gold for a change. Also wanted higher profile and gearing for road use. Front is mk1 600 and rear is mk1 400 (4" wide and same disc mount and spacing ). Front needed different bearings, centre spacer and wheel spacers made and discs sit slightly closer together so spaced to sort.
Rear wheel is same other than fitting gk76 bearings and centre spacer. Disc bolts do not have the 10mm shoulder so simply drilled the wheel to suit them.
Will double check both wheels are central when fitted just to make sure.
Steve
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Post by JonW on Sept 24, 2014 3:57:48 GMT 1
Interested to read about some RGVs coming with 525 chain/sprox, I always assumed the RGV was 520. I checked my LC421 the other day and have a 520 on it. I thought I did... but you start to doubt yerself LOL!
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 24, 2014 8:30:03 GMT 1
Interested to read about some RGVs coming with 525 chain/sprox, I always assumed the RGV was 520. I checked my LC421 the other day and have a 520 on it. I thought I did... but you start to doubt yerself LOL! I thought like most suzukis they were 525 but most are changed to the 520 option. That's a renthal sprocket on yours so not genuine. The rgv also had mid 40's teeth on it so no use to us. Noticed you run a 38 tooth rear, what kind of revs/speed does that work out as? Just changed mine for a 39 and a 70 profile tyre as the 41 and 60 profile was no good for motorway or fast a roads. Steve
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Post by JonW on Sept 24, 2014 22:35:49 GMT 1
Yep tis a Renthal, bought from a uk supplier. Agreed, mid 40's is normal, it was a struggle to find this one, most dont go that low. not tried it yet in anger, but pulls up my steep driveway with no hassles, so not worried it will be too slow.
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 25, 2014 15:06:40 GMT 1
Nearly there. Had both the Bandit 400 and GK76 wheels fitted this morning. Both lined up and both central as per the measurements I took from the RGV wheels positioning. Just got to work out which set of spacers are best for the caliper hanger. Original hanger had mounts 2mm offset from the inner face so allowing for the extra 5mm and the new hanger bracket bieng 10mm thick compared to the original ones 30mm I got a 7mm and a 13mm spacer made to go either side of the bracket. ( also got a pair of 10's in case it needed to be further over ) Got 3 rear discs now. The wavy one off my RGV wheel is 4.5mm thick, I have a new wavy at 4mm ( rgv disc with centre machined out from 81mm to 84mm to fit the other wheels) and a GK76 drilled wave disc that is a tad over 5mm hence maybe needing to space the caliper out as it sits as standard really close to the disc bolts. Not even sure if the caliper will accommodate the thicker disc. Here's the new hanger bracket Will link the bracket and the spacers together with some pins once all sorted. Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Sept 30, 2014 17:22:40 GMT 1
All done and fitted. GK76 wheel fits easy with either 5mm machined off the sprocket carrier face or the Bandit 400 carrier is the same fit and same offset as the RGV. GK76 disc side is also 5mm further out and disc centre is 3mm larger so either use a GK76 disc or a lot of the wavy ones are the bigger size but marked as RGV. I ended up with 2 new ones. 1 I ordered from China at £40 which arrived but was the smaller ID so did not fit. I had the centre opened up so it now fits. When I complained to the seller they sent the other £60 disc they sell which fits. They never charged any more or asked for the other disc back so happy days. Sprocket wise I have 2 options as mentioned before. 41 tooth SV650 alloy race and a 39 tooth steel GS500 one, both 520 pitch. To mount the caliper I made a new hanger from 10mm plate and to be safe I got 2 10mm spacers for one each side. The Disc I used was not recessed for the bolts so it needs more clearance than the 7mm and 13mm ones I measured it as. With the 10mm spacers I had to fit a washer between the mount and the caliper so 8.5mm and 11.5mm would have been perfect for my set up. Here's some pics Also in case any body is interesed I fitted a bandit front wheel. It needed machined down a bit at the speedo drive end so the RGV drive would fit. Also uses different bearings and a different spindle size so new bearings sourced and a spacer made for between them as they sit 10mm closer together. Then a 5mm larger spacer on the right and a 5mm spacer with speedo drive locating pin to get the width the same. Then found the discs sit 3mm closer together which the calipers can take but to keep it identical for swopping between the RGV and bandit wheels I got disc spacers made. Bandit 400 carrier GK76 machined carrier Steve
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Post by JonW on Oct 1, 2014 8:47:19 GMT 1
Great work mate.
I found an OEM carrier in my spares that looks just like the one you made. unsure what its off, but has to be Suzi or Kawa I would say.
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Post by deanord on Oct 6, 2014 22:50:03 GMT 1
Wow.. Someone's been busy!
Well done Steve, i'm about to start my rebuild so you appear to have saved me some time and effort - Thanks!
Naturally i went to my mates shop last week only to be told "RGV wheels? oh there's a pair in the store - any good?" Grrrrr.. I'm bloody sure i asked him about 2 years ago when i got the GK76 wheels....
Do you have a template drawing of the caliper mount you had made that i could copy by any chance? i'd really appreciate it :-) let me know and i'll pm you my email address.
Engine must be built by Christmas ahead of baby arrival in Feb... getting urgent!
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Post by deanord on Oct 6, 2014 22:57:42 GMT 1
Oh, just bought a 400 bandit carrier on fleabay.. here we go!
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