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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 13:11:13 GMT 1
Another popular question, although we have proven this time and time again that TSA pipes are pretty much the one to get, here is another back to back to test on the same bike, with the bike being set to run as best it can with the configuration it has Allspeeds - 45bhp@8795rpm and 30ft-lbs torque TSA's - 48.9bhp@7689rpm and 33.9ft-lb's torque One other point to note, with the TSA's we know they are good for significantly higher BHP figures on bikes with a different state of tune, whereas the Allspeeds are pretty much stuck to a max figure of around 49-50bhp no matter what state of tune the bike is I should be on commission with Kenny with all of this positive postings I d for his exhausts (hint hint Kenny ) !!!!!
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Post by mikee on Feb 25, 2014 13:23:55 GMT 1
im suprised the difference isnt bigger dave was it just a stock 4l0 ?
mike
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 13:30:33 GMT 1
yes, pretty much, we know we can get more out of the TSA's, but if then use a stock graph (standard exhausts etc) then you have a difference of around 9bhp by fitting the TSA's - that's getting on for a 23% power increase !
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2014 16:33:49 GMT 1
The peak power might not be that much more but the difference in the midrange is massive.
Will make a big difference to the way it rides
Steve
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 16:37:08 GMT 1
cant wait to have a go, its going to be interesting going up the mountain at cadwell this year yeeehaa
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 17:57:52 GMT 1
yes, your front tyre hasn't seen much use while I've been riding it !!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 18:18:13 GMT 1
ooooo mother he's been abusing our kaf again
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Post by Eyrey1 on Feb 25, 2014 18:45:16 GMT 1
cant wait to have a go, its going to be interesting going up the mountain at cadwell this year yeeehaa i might follow you round this year mick !
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Post by gibsonexhausts on Feb 25, 2014 19:07:55 GMT 1
Any reason why the TSA pipes tail off after 8k rpm? The Allspeeds are well known to not let the engine rev beyond the standard pipes, they were never designed to do so. Every other graph posted with the TSA pipes normally shows them reving higher. So very surprised to see such a small spread of power on this one.
P.S. Sorry if this post offends anyone on the site, I will say sorry now for mentioning our exhausts, I know this can upset people.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 19:13:45 GMT 1
Freedom of speech tony say what you like as the graph shows your pipes on my bike that I bought from you in spring 2012. Now have the tsa pipes on Your pipes do sound gorgeous tony
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 19:14:20 GMT 1
Garry think I will be following you
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Post by stfocus on Feb 25, 2014 19:16:48 GMT 1
Muuuuuu as u all say but I got a set of allspeeds because I like the look and sound off not for peformance and the price for tsa r a lot more money than gibsons we all like different things
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peacey
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Post by peacey on Feb 25, 2014 19:40:40 GMT 1
Are these midrange TSA pipes shown in the dyno chart?
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Post by Norbo on Feb 25, 2014 19:41:42 GMT 1
Tony you can menshon your pips as much as you like . you had a valed point and as people say your pipes are not performance pipe and never have been . they look nice on an lc and sound nice and that's whay people have them and all thou not a power pipe do offer a little more power over standard as a bonus to the looks and the sound . that's what I think any way .
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Post by 1966baz on Feb 25, 2014 19:49:19 GMT 1
Personally I like Allspeeds and TSAS for the the reasons mentioned. Ironically my 31k engined hybrid with Allspeeds will rev right out past 10000rpm even though it has an f2 cdi. My f2 ypvs with TSAS obviously revs loads more than it did with standard pipes but stops at 95000. Time for a ZEEL when money allows on the F2 which should benefit the bike with the TSAS.I definitely do think F2 cdis can vary a little.No offence to Kenny or Tony- as said above I love both sets.PS Thanks for putting up the graph Muttsnuts.
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 20:29:14 GMT 1
its a good question and well spotted that Mick's bike hasn't revved much past 8500, to be honest, both John and I are a little puzzled by this as Mick's bike was the same with the Allspeeds/Gibson pipes, we originally put it down to the pipes as mine was the same with Allspeeds on, as soon as the TSA's wher fitted it revved off the clock if we allowed it to ! However after Saturday's test we commented on the exact same point, I know what has been bolted onto the engine and know for certain that the configuration Mick has is good for a whole lot of revving and even more power, but for some reason his bike simply refuses to rev much past 8500rpm and we have checked and looked at lots of things, I even checked it over on Sunday as its niggling me ! I have never worked on Mick's engine so I don't know what its like internally, but once I've tested the ignitech ignition I will probably put one on his to see if it will allow us to get it to rev much higher as it should, I';ve measured his squish and its 1.7mm, so its not over compression, its a little odd really and needs further investigation to determine the cause, still it rides nice and that's the main On the plus side, with it making good power so low down in the rev's, he's unlikely to wear the engine out very quickly !!
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Post by bare on Feb 25, 2014 20:49:25 GMT 1
Faulty CDI ?
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2014 20:55:26 GMT 1
Can only be something like that, was my first thought Steve
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Post by gibsonexhausts on Feb 25, 2014 21:16:15 GMT 1
If it was a fauty CDI then it would be the same on the Allspeeds. The bike is reving as I would expect on them. I'm right in thinking this was on the same day/dyno/bike?
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Post by gibsonexhausts on Feb 25, 2014 21:23:06 GMT 1
As you say Norbo. The Allspeeds have never been a full on performance exhaust. They were designed to bolt on standard LC's and improve looks/sound without the need to modify the bike. 30 years later they are still doing this, even more than ever with owners wanting to be 17 again . I might be biased, but as anyone that knows me will know. I prefer a bolt on can style exhaust, hence the reason we started building detachable can Allspeeds. Then I could have a set for my own lc's lol
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 21:33:51 GMT 1
If it was a fauty CDI then it would be the same on the Allspeeds. The bike is reving as I would expect on them. I'm right in thinking this was on the same day/dyno/bike? Hi Tony, same bike, same dyno different days, bit nothing has changed in between (except maybe a few more miles) If it was electrical then I'd expect some sort of misfire, poor running, even at high revs, the bike runs very cleanly, and will keep revving to a point, but no more power is made, the stator high side coil check out fine, not tested the CDI but would expect some other issues, although like most things electrical, you never know I am more inclined to think the Lab seal isn't working as good as it could, the bike starts and runs fine, but seems to get asthmatic around 8500 rpm and just loses power, assuming the ignitech tests go as I expect then that will prove or disprove the CDI as that cuts it out of the picture, it also eliminates the low and high side coils, so its a good way to check them as well, plus allowing me to play with the timing. I doubt Mick will allow me to strip his engine down (just yet anyway) to check the lab seal, so we will have to wait and see BTW - I still love the sound and looks of the small can Allspeed, but for the purposes of testing etc I do on the lC, I had to go to the TSA's to keep progressing the "what can be done with a stock bike" power wise, I am only 5bhp from the 60bhp I set as a target on a stock motor, so maybe some ignition tweaking will get me very close to that now..............watch this space.....
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2014 21:38:13 GMT 1
If it was a fauty CDI then it would be the same on the Allspeeds. The bike is reving as I would expect on them. I'm right in thinking this was on the same day/dyno/bike? Was just thinking the TSA pipe might need more advance at the top to perform. Had small can gibsons when I first built my Lc2 3 years ago as you say to be 17 again. They do sound and look good. Started chasing horsepower so built a tuned engine and fitted the TSA pipes and a zeel but ran standard lc2 timing. The Gibsons would rev out no problem which surprised me as my back in the day large can Allspeeds would hit a wall at 9k. When I fitted the TSA's it was all over by 9k until I upped the top end advance and now peaks at 9650. Kenny advised this to get some more heat in the pipe and it seemed to work. You still have the best looking retro pipe though. Steve
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Feb 25, 2014 21:40:16 GMT 1
Hey muttsnuts, possesion is 9/10's of the law.
Strip it before he can stop you lol
Steve
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Post by Eyrey1 on Feb 25, 2014 21:40:51 GMT 1
Garry think I will be following you you would be safer in front mick lol bang
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Post by muttsnuts on Feb 25, 2014 21:48:46 GMT 1
Hey muttsnuts, possesion is 9/10's of the law. Strip it before he can stop you lol Steve hehe, now that you mention it.......now where did I put that lump hammer and chisel........
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Post by tsa on Feb 25, 2014 22:57:45 GMT 1
I was as suprised as you Tony when I saw the graph. My pipes are designed to peak at approx 9000rpm on a std bike not 7800 its most strange thats for sure. Does the LC have low and high end rpm coils if it does Id check that for sure. People like your pipes Tony dont ever knock them you have a good client base. People like mine too so between us we can make people very happy isnt that the name of the game mate making customers happy :-)
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jools
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Post by jools on Feb 25, 2014 23:02:19 GMT 1
But if you suspect the Lab seal you would expect the same problems to show up with the Allspeeds too Can kenny supply his pipes in kit form ? (cheaper to ship down here and i can tuck them in on assembly !!) Jools
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Post by gibsonexhausts on Feb 25, 2014 23:14:57 GMT 1
Different days can never be compared really. I've had customers bring bikes in for dyno testing and wonder why they are 10bhp down. Swear blind it has to be the dyno, then go home and find a fault on the bike. (Not two strokes as well).
Do remember we build several types of exhausts. Allspeeds are just one type. We make pipes for several different rev ranges and various uses. Hydro formed or cone design, really comes down to what the customer wants and suits the bike.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 23:23:41 GMT 1
the test with the allspeeds pipes was done on the 13-4-13 and the tsa tests were done last Saturday it is a bit worrying with bike not revving and dave if you want to test it with an ignitech then please feel free, oh and think my timing is at 2mm btdc
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Post by gibsonexhausts on Feb 25, 2014 23:34:21 GMT 1
So a seasons worth of riding in between tests then, what's that 5000 miles roughly?
Not being funny, but you can't really compare runs so far apart.
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