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Post by butchers on Apr 12, 2013 20:43:35 GMT 1
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Post by flames on Apr 12, 2013 21:09:24 GMT 1
look on the brite side mick........everybody secretly wants the underdog to win.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 21:14:45 GMT 1
I don't want to be the underdog But I do want to win
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Post by flames on Apr 12, 2013 21:16:11 GMT 1
im sure you will.
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Post by jon on Apr 12, 2013 21:55:12 GMT 1
I'd be really interested to know the 'area' under the 2 power curves. An LC while fun with it's narrow power band, is not the sort of bike to make even more peaky. Yamaha realised this which is why the YPVS was created.
My guess is one is a better road engine, and the other a better track engine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 9:07:16 GMT 1
Come on KAF you can do it ( me and KAF used to be an item but she ran off with Mick )
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Post by tsa on Apr 13, 2013 9:22:45 GMT 1
do you think if I took kennys pipes off andys bike and replaced with some scaffolding poles he would notice? ;D Thanks mate you saying my pipes look like scaffold poles now
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 13, 2013 10:41:01 GMT 1
do you think if I took kennys pipes off andys bike and replaced with some scaffolding poles he would notice? ;D i think you should take kenny's pipes off ond see what they do to yours ;D steve
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 13, 2013 17:44:40 GMT 1
well the results are in...................
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Post by butchers on Apr 13, 2013 17:52:15 GMT 1
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 13, 2013 18:03:04 GMT 1
its a tale of 2 stories, they both won and lost........... ;D
it all depends on how you look at it
The yellow budgie, mullers the black parrot in the mid range, but the black parrot mullers the yellow budgie after 8k rev's
The yellow corner did 6.8bhp more at 5k revs, but the black corner did 3.1bhp more after 8k revs
So the question is what do you prefer, more mid range or more top end power?
Graph to follow shortly
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 18:06:00 GMT 1
looks like magoos in the market for a low miles R6 ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 18:06:49 GMT 1
You've got to go for more mid range on the road or even on the track if you want a bit more drive out of the corners
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 13, 2013 18:09:16 GMT 1
To help put things in perspective as while this is a great read and some fun, the 2 bikes in reality are quiet different spec wise Micks: PWK28 carbs fitted 6mm Reed block spacers Carbon Reed petals Small can Allspeeds (Gibsons but are new, so I think the design has changed a little) 2mm BTDC (was set at 1.7mm BTDC !) Airbox lid off (but foam filter in place) Andy's: 4L001 carbs Steel Reeds TSA pipes 1.9MM BTDC Airbox lid on (snorkel removed) On Micks we couldn't get it to pick up after 8k rev's, a very odd thing, we suspect the reeds and possibly the stops might need tweaking and maybe the exhausts, although we did take the baffles out and that made zero difference On Andy's, removing the airbox top (foam filter still in place) the bike lept to 53bhp, but was running slightly weak then at mid range and high rev's, if we had jetted the bike right then its very possible that a few more BHP would have been gained in these 2 areas, however, Andy wanted to keep his bike as near standard as possible, hence why we fitted the airbox lid back and didn't alter the jetting - it wasn't/isn't my place to make decisions for other peoples bikes The true indicator of how the various parts compare/help the bike is when I get a set of Kenny's pipes on mine and then get it jetted up correctly, current view is that with the TSA's and PWK's on my bike that 55+bhp is easily achievable and also mid-range will be up another few BHP Personally knowing what I know now, a 350LC with Kennys pipes on and some PWK's is going to give you a very fast and ace LC to ride with loads of mid range punch, fitting a combination of either of these when setup correctly is going to make massive improvements over stock, but the TSA exhausts will give you the most BHP gains when jetteed correctly over the PWK's, the 2 in combination is going to give a huge improvment when set up correctly The graph below doesn't tell thew whole story and in fact is one Mick had done to show the biggest difference between the 2 bikes, which was after his was set up and before Andy's was set up (so not truly a fair comparison), I will get the proper graph's to show how they looked after them both being set as it doesn't really show Kenny's pipes correctly, believe me his pipes do make a huge difference By way of example, before I touched Andy's bike I reckon it was making no more than 40bhp by the way it felt and ran, after cleaning his carbs out, setting them up and fittings Kenny's pipes it transformed the bike, I think it would be fair to say that he has probably gained a whole 10bhp from the bike he sent me to the one he is getting back - he can confirm that when he's had chance to ride it. The big dip on the blue line was eventually removed and smoothed out, so the power comparisons are a little out compared to the final settings Also, the bike with TSA pipes fitted was run up to 53bhp, but that was with no airbox etc. After some tweaking Mick's bike got to 46.9bhp and Andy's to 49bhp, but as stated we did get it to 53bhp with the airbox lid off, but he doesn't want that, so its 49bhp for now. Mick road tested both bikes both before and after being set up and he can provide the update on his experience etc This graph is not reflective of the end position for both bikes as it shows Andy's bike before the mid range hole was removed by adjusting the carbs Here's the a graph showing Andys with Kenny's pipes on after we had sorted out the mid range (blue line), the red line is Mick's before we tweaked it a little more, but clearly shows the big difference a little tweaking can do As you can see the TSA pipes give much greater power and bring the mid range up very well, combined with the PWK carbs its possible that the whole power curve will be raised
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 18:09:19 GMT 1
You've got to go for more mid range on the road or even on the track if you want a bit more drive out of the corners looks like darley is a no contest then ;D mick restricted to 5k and me 9.5k ;D ;D ;D iirc it was overall power was the game winner not 1/4 throttle
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Post by midlifecrisisrd on Apr 13, 2013 18:21:55 GMT 1
would be good to reverse the pipes and see what difference the pipes and carbs make.
steve
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Post by flames on Apr 13, 2013 18:38:23 GMT 1
i wonder if mick had kennys pipes fitted,if his blue line would then take on the red line up top.
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 18:44:36 GMT 1
i wonder if mick had kennys pipes fitted,if his blue line would then take on the red line up top. he will be £500 lighter to find out
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Post by flames on Apr 13, 2013 18:48:30 GMT 1
very true.i would imagine you could feel the extra top end with your pipes,but dont know if his better midrange would be so niticeable.be interesting to see what his road test verdict is.
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 18:55:12 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 20:28:24 GMT 1
Come on KAF you can do it ( me and KAF used to be an item but she ran off with Mick ) ;D ;D ;D, she has been an expensive mistress since
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 20:42:44 GMT 1
THE ROAD TESTS I took both bikes out prior to going on the dyno, my bike was a lot better than it was with the standard kr1s jets but still not quite there, but very rideable, On the dyno the needles were dropped by two and it sorted everything out, no hesitation at all and very very happy, we tried a lot of things, baffles out, baffles with no wadding, removing air box lid etc finally settled on baffles with no wadding and air box lid on. Interesting thing was when we tested to see how much difference the boost bottle made, we found it killed the power by 0.2 bhp On andys bike I found it completely dead from 4 to 6k but then just wanted to fly. On the dyno it was tweaked so it made better bhp between 4 and 6 k (still not as much as mine ;D) then I took it back out for a road test and it felt very sorted and no hesitation but at the top end when it got to 8,500rpm it just wanted to go again ;D Looks like kennys pipes want more air than the standard air box can provide, solution? pod filters!!!
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Post by oldelsieboy on Apr 13, 2013 20:56:34 GMT 1
Interesting thing was when we tested to see how much difference the boost bottle made, we found it killed the power by 0.2 bhp Rich posted a similar fact a couple of years ago, only his was 2bhp lower with the bottle fitted. OEB
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Post by muttsnuts on Apr 13, 2013 20:57:59 GMT 1
THE ROAD TESTS I took both bikes out prior to going on the dyno, my bike was a lot better than it was with the standard kr1s jets but still not quite there, but very rideable, On the dyno the needles were dropped by two and it sorted everything out, no hesitation at all and very very happy, we tried a lot of things, baffles out, baffles with no wadding, removing air box lid etc finally settled on baffles with no wadding and air box lid on. Interesting thing was when we tested to see how much difference the boost bottle made, we found it killed the power by 0.2 bhp On andys bike I found it completely dead from 4 to 6k but then just wanted to fly. On the dyno it was tweaked so it made better bhp between 4 and 6 k (still not as much as mine ;D) then I took it back out for a road test and it felt very sorted and no hesitation but at the top end when it got to 8,500rpm it just wanted to go again ;D Looks like kennys pipes want more air than the standard air box can provide, solution? pod filters!!! I am looking into options on how to get more air in there without the need for pods !! - but its a work in progress at the moment....... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 21:00:58 GMT 1
Still going to have the boost bottle on though as its very small and looks good ;D ;D
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 21:09:39 GMT 1
hey mick.i hear from a dicky bird theres another dyno graph floating about the one without you applying my back brake at mid range can ya put that one up ;D you havent mentioned 53.6 bhp with the airbox lid off
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Post by copper99 on Apr 13, 2013 21:18:57 GMT 1
Interesting outcome then chaps, great read.
...and we always suspected boost bottles where just bling in the 80's, seems like that was always the case
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Post by marsbar350 on Apr 13, 2013 21:22:35 GMT 1
yes copper these blingy bits dont normally work if ya look at norbos hybrid bikes you will see what i mean ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 21:57:51 GMT 1
I didn't mention the 53bhp as it had been mentioned earlier. Andy ditch the air box lid and invest in 3 tie wraps instead And since you don't ride your bike over 6,000 rpm them extra Ponies ain't going to do you any good ;D
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Post by winnerevo1 on Apr 13, 2013 21:58:51 GMT 1
If you are making 53HP with the lid off then surely you just need to drill some big holes in the lid That's what I was thinking......
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